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athene-5
(Sun Aug 3 19:26:14)
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In the interests of helping newbies to the board find their way around,
I thought this might be a good time to bring out this old post we
created a while ago. Enjoy!
RINGNUTTIQUETTE
great title, courtesy of Wajz 
CRITICIZE IDEAS, NOT PEOPLE 
RESPECT OTHERS' POINTS OF VIEW 
TRY SAYING I UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU SAY I DISAGREE
BE ON TIME FOR MEETINGS (oops! guess that doesn't apply here, does it?)
ASK FOR CLARIFICATION- that's probably not what they meant, anyway 
USE THE ICONS- maybe you should have told us it was a joke 
AVOID OPEN FLAME NEAR INFLAMMABLE TOPICS 
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!  Wajz
IGNORE CUTS BOTH WAYS - wondering why your board has zero posts? 
AVOID DEMON- or ANGEL-IZING OTHER PEOPLE  versus 
If someone farts, be polite and take the blame for them.  Sith Chikken
Be excellent to each other.  Lady-Eowyn
If you expect someone to concede something, be willing to compromise as well  homerinvests
"We have to be aware of our instinctive need to be a member of a "closely knit" group fighting for common ideals that may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are." Paul Hawthorne
Be more respectful to the elves, especially Arwen and Elrond
They're people too! Ptero-Valley
If you're wrong, admit it. Karen S 
If you lose your temper, admit it and apologize. Karen S 
Don“t bring Private Messages out into the public! Ever! Kalliope
You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. athene
USE THE 'IGNORE' BUTTON IF NORMAL REASONING FAILS.  Wajz
Act on others as you expect others to act on you
When someone you've been talking to on and off the boards for months sends you a message, you owe them the courtesy of a reply. mentalcritic
Be careful to check your facts before basing arguments on them. 
DON'T MESS WITH ME, I HAVE AN AXE!  Tubbabubba
NEVER STAY SERIOUS ABOUT ANYTHING FOR MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES [ athene
PARTY ON DUDES AND DUDETTES!  Lady-Eowyn
Respond to threads you like or they may disappear. Even a "Hi, great post" counts. sinaes
On the Subject of Food:
HAVE DONUTS!!  homerinvests
If you are bringing food, bring enough for everyone. Keep in mind that those of us who are hobbits and dwarves will need extra helpings. willow213
Hobbits and Dwarves will bring the donuts athene
Don't ALWAYS bring the Krispy Kreme. Some of us actually prefer Dunkin' Donuts and Winchell's. Shakra
On the Subject of Living with Trolls: 
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! amarantha 03
When dealing with new trolls, presume ignorance before foolishness. Just a few positive replies will usually suffice. sinaes
If there's somethin' strange in your neighbourhood
Who ya gonna call - the Shieldmaiden!
If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good
Who ya gonna call - the Shieldmaiden!
I ain't afraid a no troll, I ain't afraid a no troll
In other words... don't handle trolls all by your lonesome; call for help and there ain't no river wide enough to keep us from gettin' to you! Lady-Eowyn
Alizarins Words to the Wise
REMEMBER - This is the internet, and as such you should realise:
You will be talking to people from different racial and cultural backgrounds; what is appropriate to you isn't always going to be what's appropriate to them.
-Accordingly, no racial remarks will be tolerated. 
-There is also a good chance you will talking to people with differing sexual persuasions and no 'gay-bashing' will be tolerated either.
-Many posters here will be using English as a second language and this should be taken into account at all times; no petty insults over spelling, punctuation and grammar.
-Anyone can make a typo, so similarly, there's no need to make remarks about mistakes. 
-If you're a newbie, don't be afraid to join in, even if you feel out of your depth; your opinion will be respected as long as you aren't trying to start a fight. 
-Mutual respect will get you further than ignorance and you will make / keep friends by having a respectful attitude.
And mistlerose adds here:
Be careful of the content that is in your posts as there are people of all ages on the board. Don't post anything that is inappropriate. 
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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Don't feed the trolls!!!
"Let us always meet each other with a smile, for the smile is the beginning of love" 
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Kalliopé
(Sun Aug 3 19:35:21)
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| UPDATED Sun Aug 3 19:36:12 |
I second that, Ammy!
Don“t bring Private Messages out into the public! Ever!
Knowledge is Power. Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.
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Uinen
(Sun Aug 3 19:37:07)
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Heh heh. I agree.
You're one fry short of a Happy Meal...
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Me, too! I've added these to the list.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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But I'm afraid I do on this one (and with those who have agreed too). PMs have been published in the past, usually from trolls who are harassing members of the board, and no one ever complained about that. I am one of the people who posted a PM in fact (along with Greg and Lian I believe, when we were dealing with JPBF).
I would agree that standard PMs should be private, but if someone is on the receiving end of an attack, or they feel some line has been crossed, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to use PMs to demonstrate poor behaviour and alert other users to that.
I gather this is an issue because of recent events, and as much as I'd like to support any respected member of this board it is wrong to have two sets of rules. When a person sends a PM, troll or otherwise, YES, it is a PRIVATE message, but they still have to accept responsibility for sending that message, and they have to be willing to suffer the consequences of how they treat someone, privately or otherwise.
Like it or not, if you are a bitch or a bastard when speaking to someone, you cross the line of 'acceptable' behaviour - if you do that, you no longer deserve the same courtesy IMO. If I receive any private messages I feel are particularly nasty, I will share them with the board if I feel it is warranted. Likewise, if I send an invective laden PM to someone I have to accept that not only is that person going to do whatever they can to pay me back for my 'attack', but they also have the option of reporting me and having me banned. So if you do it, you are making yourself vulnerable, you are committing yourself in print, and you best be ready to take whatever comes your way by return.
So, I'm against the inclusion of this rule on the list.
Al
:)
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush.
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There have been, are, and will always be instances when publishing a PM is warranted. Sure, the P is not there for nothing. Then again, I am a firm believer that everything we discuss should be on-board anyway. Even if this includes angry head-on collisions. I really don't believe in establishing a RULE about this. It's all a matter of judgement and common decency.
I have shared nasty PM's from others with several of you using email, but only once have I contemplated putting a PM on the board. That was last week in fact, when Monte was at his most insane and sent me a ludicrous reply to a PM I sent to him asking him to desist in his trolling. I did not post that, not because I was asked not to, but because Monte had demonstrated his lunacy clearly enough without further assistance from me.
Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!
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I agree with Alizarin and Wajz.
The only thing I've put into PMs in that past that I would mind being broadcast is personal information. Usually when I PM it's to talk to a particular person, and the board would not be interested anyway. I am not afraid to talk to people in public, and would never say anything privately that I lack the courage to say in public.
Only once have I put a PM on the board. Sorry - twice, as I remember now the PM from our troll war of last year, the incident Alizarin reffered to.
"Eschew obfuscation."
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We would have to ask Kalliope what prompted her to include this but I can speculate based on my own experience and comments from others.
I think that the publishing of PM's makes other posters uncomfortable and feel unsafe in their boarding relationships with other posters. Even when it's a troll who is being exposed to view, the question arises in the minds of others: where does the line get drawn, what can I say in a PM that is safe from the view of others? Therefore, in my opinion, it is a very bad practice to publish any PM's on the board at all, because once we start, the natural restraint that privacy imposes vanishes. I understand and accept that people share things privately, in order to consult with their intimates on how to handle a proble with someone else. Private sharing is not the question here, but publishing on the board is.
Also, the PM allows people to vent a little at someone, in a private manner, without causing a big fight on the board. Most of us have been able to resolve issues via PM, precisely because we were able to speak our minds to each other in a private arena, get past the invective and get into the resolution stage. Using PMs brings an argument to a head, but it also opens the way to resolution. Publishing PMs on the board merely serves to prolong the argument and drags other people into it, causing more hurt feelings. People who do this are not perceived as having an interest in resolving problems. The person who sends the PM full of invective may be made to look bad, but so is the person who published the PM.
I speak from experience because as you know, I published a PM a year ago in that horrible argument with Lhunfalasiel, and while it did bring the argument to a close, I decided I would not do that again. It closed the door to any attempt at resolution, and I did it out of anger, not out of reason. On reflection, I would have done things differently and perhaps the argument would have ended differently.
So, I'm leaving this on the list for two reasons. It was suggested by someone else, and I've heard it privately from quite a few others, and that means that it reflects the thinking of people on the board. And it's a good guideline for encouraging people to work problems out, rather than perpetuating them on the board.
Since we can now archive our posts safely, the dissenting responses to this issue will be available for others to read.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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I don't know what difference it will make. People, surely, behave as they see fit and not according to a list you (or anybody) has compiled?
"Eschew obfuscation."
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Take note please of the many names next to the individual guidelines. This list was compiled by a lot of posters, it's a group document that arose out of hard experience.
I see that you do understand the intent- this is a list for each of us to use as guidelines for getting along on the board with others. It's not intended to be used to monitor the behaviour of others and engage in finger-pointing. Of course, people will do as they please, and take the consequences, whether it is praise or censure. That's the way of life, isn't it?
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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| UPDATED Mon Aug 4 17:06:05 |
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Hey, Brother!
Sorry for not replying to this earlier, my email account was down and I never got the notification until today... Stupid Puters!
You got every right to disagree with me (as long as you feel bad about it!  )
I feel VERY strongly about this issue. I am convinced that PRIVATE means private, period.
It is my utter believe that Nothing (read this in huge letters!) warrants dragging something that was said in private out into the open.
Even if it“s a PM a troll wrote, personaly I don“t have a different set of rules there. There must be other ways do deal with it, though fortunately I never had to think about WHAT other ways.... or maybe unfortunately, since I can not follow the reasoning to a point of ageeing with you, Lian and Wajz.
If my memory serves me right I never noticed you posting this JPBF PM, either I missed the thread or it was before I joined here... but I am pretty sure that I would have voiced my concerns about posting it. Most likely in a PM...
But hey, since I“ve been fortunate so far and never been harassed or attacked via PM it“s easy for me to say such things, right? If it should ever happen I“ll let you know if I change my mind about this! As for now, I stick to it though.
Knowledge is Power. Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.
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I will respect your thinking on this and will leave it on the list exactly as your wrote it. If you ever want to change your wording, you can let me know.
I hope that people realize that these are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If people follow the guideline of not publishing PMs, perhaps in those few cases where it does happens, it will be very easy to detemine whether someone was truly unjustifiably violating another person's privacy.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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Thanks, athene. I appreciate that.
I“m well aware that these are only guidlines and in the end it“s a persons own (private ) decision which of these suggestions they follow.
Knowledge is Power. Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.
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OK then (been watching Raising Arizona  )
Al
:)
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush.
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LOL, thanks for the image of Nicolas Cage in a Kilt... that just brightened my day!
Knowledge is Power. Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.
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sinaes
(Sun Aug 3 22:01:06)
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Respond to threads you like or they may disappear. Even a "Hi, great post" counts.
When dealing with new trolls, presume ignorance before foolishness. Just a few positive replies will usually suffice.
I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless 
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Hi, great post.
 You offer it to me freely.
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sinaes
(Mon Aug 4 02:18:59)
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I'm like a good haines t-shirt: tagless
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Good ones, sinaes! I'll add them to the document.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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If there's somethin' strange in your neighbourhood
Who ya gonna call - the Shieldmaiden!
If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good
Who ya gonna call - the Shieldmaiden!
I ain't afraid a no troll, I ain't afraid a no troll
In other words... don't handle trolls all by your lonesome; call for help and there ain't no river wide enough to keep us from gettin' to you!
 You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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Good one, Lady. I'll add it in.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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This is a reposted version of Ringnuttiquette, from my old Word document. The previous version was deleted by the admins along with all the responses adding new suggestions. I thought we'd just start over with what we have and build it again from there.
If you reply with your suggestions, this time I'll put them in the document so they don't get lost. At the time, I didn't realize the admins were going to delete our posts, so I thought the replies on the thread alone would be enough, but we know better now. sigh!
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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When someone you've been talking to on and off the boards for months sends you a message, you owe them the courtesy of a reply.
 --mentalcritic
"Ash nazg durbatulūk!"
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Thanks! I'll add this to the document, maybe with a little editing to make it work with the format of the post. These are all good points.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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I'll delete these other posts now too. Thanks
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush.
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Despite being involved in the discussion on this thread as much as I have (hey you can even blame me for my original post to Kalli if you want), I'd like to suggest that we all delete our posts to free the thread up of 'excess baggage'.
Regardless of whether you agree with that particular suggestion or not, I would also like to suggest that any further discussion be conducted via PM (yes I know, the irony of it all) for the same reason.
If you agree, you can either post a quick reply to this or start deleting. If anyone wants to preserve what they've said it takes a moment to make a copy of the thread so no worries there I'd say.
Al
:)
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush.
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I'd gladly continue these discussions in PM, I can't see it interesting many others anyway.
"Eschew obfuscation."
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Thank you Lian.
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush.
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OK- but where does that leave Kalliope? I'd like for her to see 'sorry to disagree with you sister' and Wajz's reply, my reply...there have been some very good opinions posted and I'd like for them to be available a little longer for her to read and respond to so that she can tell me what she wants to do with her suggestion. So, how about if we delete the chatter that occurs below those posts?
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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Normally I am assidiously against people deleting their posts, as I find it cowardly and believe people should stand by what they've said.
However, I've deleted my posts in this thread - except the ones agreeing with Alizarin in a few, less contentious, conversations. This was in accordance with my countryman's suggestion, and after PMs with Aule.
"Eschew obfuscation."
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I am so happy to see the spirit of peace and wisdom prevail. To all involved: well done, pat yourselves on your back.
Shakra! I said your BACK!
I only delete my posts when I was the originator of an entire thread that escalated. I have done so twice already... If there has to be bickering and polarizing on this board, find, but not on one of my threads.
Begone foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!
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Well, this is just a public service post, so it can be deleted to get rid of extraneous yakking and reposted again. Which is what I will probably do once this is all worked out. I've gotten plenty of new suggestions to add anyway, so an update will be in order soon.
But consider not deleting you first post- I want something left for Kalliope to read.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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Shakra
(Mon Aug 4 17:05:01)
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Sheesh! You think I'm going after your butt? Well...maybe. I'll check it out when I get there.
Homer: God bless those pagans.
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Aule
(Mon Aug 4 16:41:44)
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I have done so as well, although the damn board was so slow I couldn't for a while!
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 Oog make mission statement.
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Be careful of the content that is in your posts as there are people of all ages on the board. Dont post anything that is inappropriate.
And Peter Jackson, my precious, who do you think you are you f**king hack.
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A very good suggestion, mistlerose. I'll add it to the list this evening.
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew..."
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I thought it was especially after that post yesterday (which has now been deleted).
'Twas the night before christmas and all through the Shire
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MonarchOfDoom
(Thu Aug 7 17:24:47)
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| UPDATED Thu Aug 7 17:28:04 |
Which one would that be...?
Run, you pigeons! IT'S ROBERT FROST!!!
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Oog make mission statement.
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"You're forgetting one important thing mate...I'm Captain Jack Sparrow..."
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Be excellent to each other.
PARTY ON, DUDES (AND DUDETTES)!
Ah, the wisdom of "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures."  I doubt the above are any good for Ringnuttiquette, but they make for an interesting bump.
You are a daughter of kings. A shieldmaiden of Rohan.
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